Donny Epstein

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S: In this episode number 149, I’m so excited to reveal a special guest that I have been working for several years now to get onto the show. I experienced his healing modalities firsthand back in 2012. It was a game-changer for me and for my amazing wife, Orion. That’s why I’ve invited her to help introduce Donny Epstein and to share our experience working with him. Orion?

O: Yes?

S: What was it like to get an entrainment, an energy healing from Donny Epstein for you?

O: The first time I’ve seen Donny work on you, I freaked out because it looked really weird. He just touched the energy around your body, and you started to move, and shake, and your face looked completely different. I was kind of freaked out. But when Donny worked on me, it was just an incredible sensation. The first time, I didn’t feel much. It was a private session. We came so Donny will work on you because you’ve been going through some loss, I remember. It didn’t feel much the first time but then the next morning, we went back, and Donny worked on you, and then he worked on me, and this time I was kind of more open to it–knowing what to expect. Then he did something energetic, my chest rose, and I felt like there was a light beam radiating from my chest and connecting with a network of stars. I don’t know if you’ve seen the Fifth Element, the movie when she’s at the final scene and the Fifth Element is unleashing her weapon and she goes like [gasps], like this with her chest and there is a light beam coming out. I was just like that. It was amazing. I think because of the work that Donny did with me and the way it opened my energy channels, when we went to India together, I had this incredible out of body experience. I was able to tap into different realms and different levels through our meditations in Oneness University–in the Ashram. I don’t think I was able to do so if Donny didn’t work on me. Since then, of course, I’ve got tons of entrainments from him. Each time, it’s just getting stronger, and it’s wonderful. Donny is kind of like a real life wizard. You gotta see it to believe it. It’s kind of like something out of Harry Potter where he takes bodies and they start moving like puppets and people get into trance, and experiencing connection to the fabric of creation in other realms. It’s pretty, pretty intense. Donny, as a person, when you meet him—in my heart I call him Uncle Donny—because he’s very sweet, he’s very friendly, he’s very down to earth but he’s really a wizard. If you’re listening to this right now, go take his programs, it will change your life–if you’re open to things like that. What’s really interesting about him is that even people that are not open get transformed and within a few, I don’t know, a couple of days they really open up. They cry, and they shed, and they laugh, and they really transform into a different version of themselves, and it’s pretty neat.

S: In fact, Donny says that it’s possible to exchange versions. There’s this multiverse theory out there in science that there are multiple universes. What if we could exchange versions with our most resourceful, more energetic version in a different universe and not have to spend years and years working our way up into being more enlightened, more wise, and thoughtful? You just, in an instant, switch versions.

O: Yeah. For people who don’t believe, who are very left brain, what I like about Donny’s work is it’s being studied for the last 30 years, 40 years. People are studying the wave because when he throw the energy, you can actually see the movement on somebody’s back, like a wave-like movement in the spine area, people going–they stretch backwards, and they do all kinds of things with their bodies. It’s really interesting to watch. But also, there are scientific evidence that what he does is based in, it’s not like woo woo, it’s also based in science.

S: You might think, “Well, what’s the point of having your spine do this wave kind of thing and to have your body flailing about without even being touched?” Donny doesn’t even touch you, practically and your body starts reacting. Pretty strange. What’s the benefit?

O: Well, what he does—I don’t know that much—my very, very basic understanding is that, Donny is using the energy of the universe, he’s using your energetic field, and you connect it to different, what he calls, houses or levels of universal energies. When he just make that connection, there is a wave-like motion going through your spine and your spine is reorganizing. Your body is energetic. Your energy field is reorganizing itself and so, people can heal from diseases, people can heal from depression, people open up to different realms and different ways of thinking. People are getting energy where it’s depleted in their bodies and so they can excel in public speaking, or business. There are many other benefits to working with him.

S: Right. You can get energetic blocks released. You can potentially get a disease released or just ameliorated. Just a disclaimer, this is not medical advice in this episode. All standard disclaimers apply here.

O: Yeah, we’re not doctors but we’re just two awesome people that experienced a lot of very interesting things and giving you really crazy recommendations to do incredible things.

S: We’ve experienced entrainments from Donny at multiple events and also in one-on-one environments.

O: I consider myself very lucky to have been exposed to something like that that I wouldn’t ever imagine can exist–maybe in a sci-fi movie.

S: Yup. If you don’t take our word for it, consider Tony Robbins, swears by this energetic healing modality. He and his wife, Sage, have been forever changed by it. He says that it’s been instrumental in his wife’s healing so it’s something to check out. Millions and millions have been impacted by Donny’s work–by his energy healing. Donny is the creator of Network Spinal Analysis. He’s the creator of Somato Respiratory Integration–SRI and of EpiEnergetics. Donny has four books, two of which are 12 Stages of Healing and Healing Myths, Healing Magic. Donny started in chiropractic and then branched out into his own discipline. Network Spinal Analysis also known as Network Chiropractic is practiced around the world. There are hundreds and hundreds of Network Chiropractic practitioners all over the world. You might be able to find one near you that you can get entrainments from. Thank you my love for sharing from the heart your experience with Donny.

O: Thank you for having me.

S: I encourage you to listen to Orion’s podcast, Stellar Life. It’s iTunes’ new and noteworthy. It is an amazing show. She’s had such incredible guests like Dave Asprey, Michael Gerber, Alison Armstrong, and Sheila Kelley. That’s You can subscribe via iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play. Now, let’s welcome Donny Epstein. Donny, it’s so great to have you on the show.

D: It is so great to be here, Stephan.

S: I’ve been waiting to have this episode with you for a while now because you’ve really touched my life in such a profound way over many times, over many experiences, starting years ago when we chatted in India and had just a really great connection there. I actually met you and had a nice connection with you in Egypt as well, but then it wasn’t until two years later in India where we had this profound connection and then it just went from there where I’ve experienced your energy-healing work, and it’s just been incredible. If you could share with our listeners here why you were invited by Tony Robbins to these platinum partner trips, which is where we met, and what sort of work you did with these platinum partners because that’s how I first got to experience you.

D: This is where it started. I never know where it started but it seems like everything prepares us for where it starts. I never know where it ends because it all keeps going. I’ve been working with Tony Robbins. I started about 14 years ago now, and I started taking care of him for his wife, Sage, and I started taking care of Tony. I’ve been with him now at many of his events and some of the plat trips, also. He has invited me generally, the first thing is to make sure I take care of him keep him at his leading edge and energetically-congruent with his essential nature and able to make greater impact in a healthy way. That’s number one. Then, I had to speak at many of the events. We come out of the bullpen when really needed at that time. What I’ll do is take whatever concepts they’ve got in the program and integrate it at that point and fill in whatever gaps there may be. It’s just an extraordinary group of people to present to. I meet great people such as you. Lately, I’ve been presenting, in the past two years mostly on–basically energetics behind everything and relationships, being energetic on what you observe and how it impacts that. The work I’ve been doing with him started out with my network, the Network Spinal applications which over the years invoke a unique wave in a person. That wave started as pure consciousness wave that moves through the body. People assume yoga postures and have conscious shifts. It’s been about 30 years since I was able to produce that. Over the past 30 years, 11 universities have actually studied the wave in different ways and papers have been written on the mathematics of the self-organizing wave that moves through individual. People get a Master and PhD studying it. Basically, it produces the coherence of the central nervous system. Coherence at a distance between the whole body and between individuals across space. What it would be like–and you’ve experienced this and then I’ll talk about how we jump from that to the energetic application. Imagine you had a wave that was your mathematical signature for how you organize your nervous system, your body and spine, your connection between the brain and the body. What is authentic? What if that wave itself was your reference? It’s a stretch to call, a soul signature but I believe it’s your soul signature because my lifetime, my holy grail is do how each of us–both as a drop to water as the ocean as individuals is collective–how do each of us express our unique nature? How we think, how we interact, or what happens in interactions, how people respond to us, what we could achieve, or not achieve? What is the signature of how we put our signal out to the universe and get response? This wave called the somatopsychic because it’s body and mind, because here, I believe that the body itself is part of the mind, it actually creates the mind. It’d change your posture. It’d change your emotions. It’d change the way you move your body. It’d change your thoughts. It’s a pretty simple principle. The yoga stays developed because as the energy moves through the body, the person assumes certain postures that potentiated that. Get this, the person’s gait, the way you walk you know to be characteristic of a person, but if a person who break their leg, who had a stroke, or something of that nature and you walking around, dragging your leg, what recognizes you but today’s modern systems? Actually, some of the developers and researchers in University of Southern California, are researching the way to improve healthcare. They realized that all the movements of the body and spine, all the muscular, the central nervous system, some movements that result in your gait, that they all revolve around your algorithm. If an injury would happen, if something would happen to you, it disturbs you. You go through a period of chaos but then it would re-adjust all the movements consistent with an algorithm that’s unique to you. No two people have the same algorithm. That’s extraordinary. Now, considering the fact that your sense of self is a series of motor strategies, when you’re in awakened state or you’re really blissed out, there is no thinking and there is really no tension about it there. What happens is when your sense of self is only identified by motor muscle movements and postural movements to your body, when this wave goes through, it’s the [00:15:53] is to suspend non-authentic patterns of the nervous system, of the spine. The human gait is what’s called a central pattern generator because it generates the pattern for your movement. Well, the network, as we call it or a somatopsychic wave is the second known central pattern generator response now sets the locomotion. Somehow, after it goes through the spine, it suspends non-authentic patterns associated with your thoughts, your actions, your physiology, your life and replaces it at a higher order, a more effective and efficient order for you. That’s pretty cool. I started with that and he loved that idea, and he loved re-organizing to higher level rather than restoring to a previous level. Imagine, no matter what you do therapeutically, you’re trying to figure out what the body wants to restore it into a prior state. What if you had the access to the signal that is your identity, knows who they are and let that do the work and bring it to levels never seen before? It’s upgrading your operating system and I found that out 18-20 years ago. That I could access these same strategies of how the body moves, their conscious states. I could do that by accessing a field around the body in a very unique way, the space around your body. When I worked with Tony personally, I used most of this application called epi-exchange where you don’t have to change; you actually become a higher-order version of you that has more resources, nothing to figure out and nothing to have to understand. You just know and you just are. Now, that’s pretty extraordinary. I worked with him with that, where most of my other practitioners and other sessions seeing him work with a higher level of my network but physical applications on the body. I have not yet been able to teach this energetic application but what I learned from it, about a person’s nature, how you live, how you create, those skill sets really are basically skill sets for the magic pointing to creation of manifestation of life.

S: Let me get this straight, you’re saying there are multiple versions of us and we can just exchange versions to one that has more resources, that is more enlightened and has greater access to the universal intelligence and the 99% reality?

D: Absolutely. Now, I developed models in healing, wrote books on healing. Healing assumes your one version of you and you have to get energy that is isolated, alienated, abused, ignored, shamed, and denied. That energy and that information—you have to break through it in different pieces and as it’s more energy to change and grow and messed up, it becomes a healthier you. With enough of that, you can impact the world. I pioneered models on that physical, emotional, mental, spiritual and been  involved with research over 80 published papers on these things. That’s really great and that’s extraordinary. I get that myself and, in order to be able to make the shift to next tier of consciousness which is already here and everyone feels a calling for. Right now, this chaotic area, politically, economically, socially, environmentally, as the old way of the world organizing and humans interacting it is coming to an end. It is the end of days, but it’s a beginning of these extraordinary years. Negotiating the time in between is why I’m here on this planet, to help make that transition occur. I’ve found that this other model, which is consistent with the basic principles of everyone in the major spiritual traditions from Judaism, to Christianity, to Islam, to Buddhism, to Hindu and all the major religions talk about the fields in their traditional scriptures. The fields around the body, a bio-energy which creates the experience of survival and creates the organs, the skin, the bones, ligaments and your ability to survive. Then, the emotional aspects help you adapt to rapid changes, and different mental aspects, and spiritual aspects. Now, what I’ve done is, first, in my network, the applications to the chiropractic profession I developed, I recognized how those strategies show up as movement, breath, focus, attention, etc in the body. Since I had that mapped and we could actually map out increased energy, efficiency or coherence–coherence is we both cohere to the same time; we both respond across space in a magical zone–as I know when that happens, I then said, “Wow, what if I find a different source of energy rather than have to break through a wound to form a gift, rather than go from the rape, the attack, the divorce, the cancer or disease to finally have the energy to make a change? Oh my god, that’s what’s life about.” Instead, we could just go there. For that, exactly what you talked about, Stephan, there, we can what I call “exchange”. The reason I figured that out is that, working with people this way, it was impossible to have gotten that big of a change in their personality, in their physiology, in their structure and the way they experienced the world—it couldn’t have been and the person says, “I’m a different person.” People say, “You’re a different person.” I started realizing that and I went, “Oh my god, what if there can be 10,000 versions of us, each different by one active yes or no at a critical time in our life?” Steph, you’ve had it, too, when people listen here. You’ve had it when you said no and you got this feeling, this really profound, gross feeling like, “I should have said yes,” or, “I should have said no.” You know that feeling, right?

S: Yeah.

D: At that one point, you turned a different direction, that one event, going in and out of your house, one minute earlier later, going to that street, answering the phone call, saying hello to somebody or not, looking in their eye or not, saying thank you to somebody or not, helping a child on the street or not. All those things at particular critical times set a change of trajectory for you and for others, which is very essential, and it’s a little different life.

S: I find that when I say the yeses or the noes that are outside my comfort zone, that’s where I’m in alignment with my higher purpose. When I take the easy route, that’s when I get that pain of, “I should have done something different.”

D: That’s because the track that led you on a different version of you has a different life expression. I know this is really strange, but what if you can? What if we can get all 10,000 versions to have that same type of wave in the body in the field or space around you, and all of them, in a moment, could just take a breath and see things from a better perspective with a more resourceful choice, experience a different range of feelings, listen to askew at that time—at that one time, impacting everyone. This is what my current trajectory is. Again, I have more of a conservative or less of a conservative approach, though all of them pretty radical, but on this range, and this is one of the reasons I’m developing this, that by observing people in this state, I got to see their typologies, how it is because the quest is, “Who am I? Why am I here? What am I made of? How could I bring the greatest resource to create the greatest impact to the world?” You could only create impact on what you value, which you have the most energy for you value and you could only do it in your nature. It’s a simple principle. When you bring your source of energy to any system, whether it be a relationship right now–the systems—and you are listening to it; it could be my body or my heart, the cardiovascular system. It could be your business. It could be your society. When you bring your source of energy to any system that involves living with people consistent with its nature, this system instantly becomes something else. It comes up to 30 years to make this change, it will actually dictate – three or six seconds to have enough energy and the change just happened. This is what I call the epi-exchange. It’s an energetic application. As of now, I’m the only one who does it because I need to learn to teach it. This next year, I’m looking to find ways to teach aspects of it. The key thing is since it’s so dramatic, when we interview or speak to people like that and they have insight, we have learned so much about the nature of the individual. When you live consistent with your nature, life effortlessly happens. If you have to work on it–”I’m on a spiritual path for 20 years,”–well, aren’t you freaking there yet? “I’m working on my issues.” No, that means that you just accepted in putting effort. There is no effort in the opening of a flower. There is no effort in a sunrise or a sunset. The same force that guides the sun, the moon and the stars guide our life. Now, it’s really wonderful to be able to get in that river that’s guiding us rather than find all technology to cross current.

S: Yeah, kind of like stepping into the vortex and just allowing instead of kicking up resistance in your path, to use Abraham Hicks’ terminology. Does that make sense?

D: Yes, and that’s exactly it. The thing is, we have been rewarded in our lives, our personalities, by the effort. The greater effort, therefore, it must be good. This relationship is great because it hurts so much. “I’ve been working on this issue for years.” Well, if the energy is there, it just happens. It’s so counter-current because the entire culture, economic, political system rewards effort and doesn’t reward effortless or ease because it just happens. It just happens, and that’s what we’re looking at. An example I can give–and this is really kind of trippy–a woman in one of my week-long programs called the Ultimatum Program–you’ve been there.

S: An amazing program, yeah.

D: She played a recording for me and it was her father in support of the other program, it said, “Hi, Sweetheart. I love you so much. I’m so sorry I missed you last night. Being with my baby girl is the best thing of my life and I’m sorry I zoned out. Next week, same time. Call me in between. I love you,” and she’s crying. I said, “What are you crying about?” She said, “My father understands. I haven’t spoken to my father in six years.” I said, “Well, the version you became yesterday did.” The only question I asked was, “When you heard his voice, why’d you have to switch back to that? Was your story, the energetic of that person, so important that you couldn’t hold to higher energy?” Someone else just wrote to me just a couple of days ago that, two weeks ago–her mother was in a program–her mother was going to go for cardiac surgery for cardiac arrhythmia and valve replacement, had difficulty breathing. Again, we’re not curing anything but it’s about energy, about everything including the body, and she realized she was living opposite her nature. She just changed the way she observed or interacted with the world. I actually worked with her to potentiate that. Then, she was aware of it and the daughter just wrote to me and called and said, “Guess what? Every time my mother recognized her nature, lived opposite it, the arrhythmia came up and the heart condition .She’s now there. She’s hiking. She’s walking. She’s doing great and she’s recognizing when her available energy drops because she’s outside her nature. She has cardiac symptoms. When she’s in her nature, it totally disappears so she does whatever she wants.” That’s the nature of it. I’ve had people with all types of diseases, various, life-threatening, where they changed. Not just that the disease went away; that’s not it. It’s because if they did not have the need for it–because all diseases and all of our crises that we have difficulty with are energy of deficiencies. If you could find a way to increase the amount of energy in your system, in your body or in your life between you and whatever you observe instantly, the system evolves. The amount of energy you have available at any moment and the type of energy determines your thoughts, your actions, your emotions and your ability to manifest, whether it be in relationships, money or whatever is that you’re looking at. It’s simple. If you drop the energy down, you have a less-efficient thought or you have a less-efficient action; you have a less-efficient emotion, a more painful one. Raise the energy, it’s different. Everything in reality only exists in a certain level of energy because you need energy to manifest potential. Everything is information. A glass is information. Your body is information. Information plus energy could be potentiated and shows up in the world that we see. We take energy out of it like a piece of wood turned to ash. It’s no more energy to fuel the information when it falls down. It’s the same thing in your body, the amount of energy, it drops to a lower order to survive and it’s called disease. Raise the energy level and that’s it. It affects every aspect. I’m talking about, Stephan, and the reason why you asked me in a call, I know and, in our interaction, is because I’m sharing what’s the secret of the ages and it’s, “How do you manifest reality? How do you experience it?” For almost four decades, I have been hacking the code between the human experience, the field around us and reality, the body, the field, reality, and I realized, five years ago, that it’s tough to win the game of life the way it’s set up so I want to come up with some other ways to change those codes. I didn’t know anything about it. I went to Facebook camp because friends brought me there and I was totally amazed and found it extraordinary when they’re having hacking conferences. “I have a hacking call sometimes.”

S: Yeah, hackathon.

D: That’s it. I thought hacking was a bad thing and then I realized, “Oh my god,” and one of my friends who works at Facebook, pretty high up in the organization, he invited me there. He said, “Yes, this is what you do. You hack the code and install new codes.” That somehow influenced the way humanity experience, individuals experience the world and what’s possible.

S: Well, I’ve experienced that from you. I’ve shared this on episodes before of this podcast but I’ll briefly share it again. When I was at Ultimatum, your amazing event, and during one of the entrainments when you were doing the energy work and connecting me up to my infinite potential and my highest version, I had this incredible experience. First, I had this download that I could give a oneness blessing that I just learned, it’s called the Deeksha in a remote setting, without being physically present, without putting my hands on the person. I’d learned this in India. You have to put your hands on the person’s head in order to give the Deeksha, but then I was laying on the floor after getting this entrainment from you, Donny, and I had this divine download that I could do it remotely. I just started blessing all these people, including people I didn’t even like, and I know it worked because one of those people–and there were about 50 people–who I hadn’t thought of for at least 15 years had kind of disappeared from my life. He was an employee. I had fired him because he was talking bad about me to other staff and I heard about it, and I was not kind or compassionate in the way that I terminated his employment. It was all legal and everything yet he still filed a lawsuit. Eventually, I would have won but it would have cost more money to win than to just settle, and then he disappeared from the face of the earth. I had never heard his name again or anything for 15 years, and then he came to my mind when I was laying on the floor, blissed out after that entrainment, where time and space just didn’t even seem real to me. I was just able to give these blessings, these Deekshas, remotely. He came to mind and I blessed him, and then who calls me on my cellphone four days later? Out of the blue, after 15 years, it’s this guy. That just floored me. Actually, in a way, it didn’t because I felt like we’re all connected and this is just how it works.

D: You can see at that point there are different intelligences, the pre-rational, before the mind, that’s the bio-energy whose job is to keep you alive and survive—that’s its whole job. If you use that in your relationship, you won’t have one because it’s just about surviving, you surviving. If you’re doing your business, your business will be out of business. If you use the survivor energy of this bio-energetic intelligence, what’s going to happen in life is that you’ll say no to great opportunities because even though it’s great, whether it be love, finances, fame or fortune, whatever’s going to happen, that high energy you can’t deal with and to survive, you’ll say no. If you use the emotional energetic intelligence call—because this is the intelligence that tells the energy how to create. You have matter then you have energy that moves matter. If you have a glass, you have to move it some place. You have energy that moves the body that can stir the cells and into life. Then, you say, “Well, energy is the boss of all matter.” The next thing is you don’t put energies into relationships, you don’t have it on your business, you don’t have it on your body and you don’t have it. The next thing is the field. What is the field? Well, you take iron  filings, and that represents your life. One is your emotions. Another is your relationship. Another may be your finances. Another is your family. Most people can handle, I don’t know, about 60 iron filings representing parts of their life. At the end of the day, you just want to make sure, it’s in line because it can scatter. You’ve got to pull them back together or you turn on an electromagnet not only to those iron filings, but line up thousands above that’s consistent with your nature, opportunities that support you on whatever you’re here for just automatically line up. I’ve studied the field and I said, “Well, I organized the field,” and I realized, by watching different people in different states of consciousness, their body moves differently. We’ve measured mathematically the organization of the nervous system at different levels of efficiency and effectiveness, upgrading it, and we realized that, yes, there are energies that are actually energetic intelligences, intelligences that guide the energy on how to organize the field, which moves the matter and changes this. Now, in the body, it’s enough to make you healthy and help the cells organize effectively and some leftover to impact others. In this energetic application, there’s so much energy available because it’s like tapping into the energy of the sun. Imagine taking a magnifying glass, taking the sun’s energy and focusing it and you could set something on fire. Well, I found ways to tap into every one of these organizing wisdoms, the bio, the emotion [inaudible 00:35:10] to react before you think about it. Then, this one thinks, “Right or wrong? Good or bad? Am I going to be liked? Am I going to be accepted? How do I fit into society so that I’m safe and protected and develop a sense of self?” Then, another one says, “Well, how do I expand this sense of self so I could optimize what I’m here for, I can optimize my life?” Then, after that, that’s the roles of rational intelligence. After, there’s the post-rational intelligence, and those are the spiritual intelligences you experience when you wake up and experience beyond the physical mind the energy of connection. At that point, time and space flux in two different directions. I have so many people I know who, in that state, when they focused on love or a particular gift to their grandparents, suddenly, that was able to help their grandparents have a different life in the past, which allows mothers to grow up differently, which allowed you to have different signals in utero, etc. Now, that happened because it’s easy to exchange to be another version because once you get to the spiritual realm, time goes in two different directions, and that’s what you’re experiencing. At that point, there is no space either. See, we are all the oceans and drop of water. The more you identify with the drop of water, the less disconnected you are of everything else. The more you focus on the ocean, the more you’re an expression of that ocean; you could impact the ocean, also, because the ocean is just a bunch of drops of waters, but the water that becomes aware influences the most. This is what we’re seeing. It took me up until recently to get it so focused, and this is what it’s about. Everyone, if you’re driving, you might want to pull over. This is something that’s worth paying attention to here. There’s a sacred relationship between the observer and what you’re observing. In that sacred relationship, the amount and type of energy that the observer uses impacts whatever you’re observing. This is what you spoke about. You were in a state where we hooked you up to what’s called the [inaudible 00:37:21] which organizes the pure knowing. Instead of having sweet loving, it’s pure knowledge. It’s pure wisdom, pure knowing consistent with your soul path, consistent with what you’re here for, an experience of connection of all those you’re connected to. Just being able to shine the light of truth on, with enough energy in that state, whatever you focus your attention on, you are blessing. What is blessing? Bringing energy to it; that’s what it does. You’re bringing energy of changes. What type of energy determines what it changes. Does it result in survival energy, a reaction energy, right-or-wrong energy, optimizing energy, the energy of truth or the Universal Spirit of Oneness energy is a Oneness blessing [00:38:03] with doing, and that is what gathers all the souls to be at a particular place at a particular time. That’s really important, Stephan, because someone may come to one of your events and you give a lecture, a keynote or just talk there. What had happened to those people’s lives 5, 10, 15, 20, 30,40 years ago for them to have a hunger to want to learn more and know more? What did it take to have all those people gather in the same location at the same time? What change did they have to make in their finance, the babysitters, their relationships, everything to be there? In those at place, people had to hear a message of some person that you met that will change your life. What did it take–what type of energy–to get all these people knowing what you’re supposed to do in the future and knowing that you had to be in that moment, you had to be giving that talk and they had to be hearing that talk in the moment to change their trajectory? It takes an amazing amount of energy. The accident that you had at some point in your life, or the broken arm you had, or the operation you had, or the relationship breakup you had, whatever it is, all these things were not happening to us; they were shaping us to a higher order to change our trajectory. When you realize that, there’s an energy that knows everyone we ever have to connect with, every impact we could potentially make on every dimension, and sets it up for us to be able to optimize these things at some point. That’s the energy that we hooked you up with at the program. With that, that energy allowed you allowed you when you made a blessing to impact what I believe happened at that point of blessing. You exchanged to different versions of you who had love and compassion for the person, and that version of you had a slightly different past. You connect with him where the wound wasn’t as great and suddenly, he wanted to call you because all he was waiting for, as a boss, he was just waiting for you blessing all along. That’s all he was waiting for because you withheld love. Withholding love is an act of violence, and it always has a consequence of too many versions and we do it as its consequences. This is the key: If you are living in your nature and then I have all the different typologies to help you understand that nature, if you live in that nature, whatever you focus on is being blessed. It’s simple. Listen up people, every moment, every time, every second, you’re cursing or blessing whatever happened. Every time you focus on the painful past or what may have happened to have someone hurt you, you are further cursing that person and making sure that type of stuff still perpetuates.

S: Wow, that’s powerful.

D: As soon as you focus your attention on whatever it is with great energy, it actually starts helping it manifest consistent with the amount of energy. I’m sure everyone here have days that nothing’s going to mess you up. Other days, everything’s going to mess you up. Well, it’s simple. If you focus on money, for example, or having money, getting prosperous, whatever that means to you, and you focus on it outside your nature or you don’t have enough energy, every time you do that, you are making sure that there’s no manifestation because if you withdraw the energy, the information cannot be manifested as a reality. It’s just a potential. I’ve developed applications to methods over the years and we’ve come home to all different disciplines, from the healing disciplines, and where you have the experience disciplines to realizing, “How do we create a lifetime learning for someone to know how you, what your nature is, how to think, act, be consistent with your nature effortlessly and how that is the force of attraction?” If you don’t like somebody or like it, if you lose money, you’ll gain it, if you’re ill or not, it has nothing to do with the circumstance. Get this: Your circumstance, long term, has almost no impact on whether you’re happy or sad, make an impact or not. Change in circumstance will not change your life. It’ll keep you busy, but changing the amount of energy available when you focus your attention on something, someone, a memory, a hope or dream will instantly be able to manifest a different reality.

S: How does that show up in somebody’s life if they are depressed or they are not resourceful? They don’t feel like they have that energy available to them and yet they need that. How do they get it? How do they plug in?

D: Well, that version doesn’t happen. I think this is the first step: Have you had times when you believed life was your circumstance?

S: Yeah, and those were some times when I was in a lower vibration. I felt like circumstances did lead to my happiness or lack thereof.

D: Lower vibration means lower energy to vibrate with. We get that, so what does it mean? If someone says, “Hey, how are you doing, Donny?” “Well, how can I do? Do you know what’s going on with one of my kids or grandkids? Well, how could I do? I got all of this going on. What do you expect? Democracy’s changing?” “How are you doing?” “Well, this shoulder hurts,” or whatever it is, they didn’t ask about my circumstances. How am I doing? When you’re really messed up, you believe life is your circumstance. Life is the most pressing thing in your email or whatever it is. Life is that. Once you realize there’s a “me” here observing, interpreting, in giving meaning to, by sensation, I call experiences, once you have that, now everything we say is possible and recognizing that. Once someone helps hook you up to that–hook you up to the fact that you’re observing, all my technologies help, whether it be the network or this network’s spinal and the chiropractic and healing or Somato Respiratory Integration or different typologies, once you start doing that, it changes things. With Tony Robbins, when we both met with Tony Robbins, he’s a genius in helping people take a look at what he says is, “Nothing has any meaning except the meaning you give it,” and basically helps you develop what is your typology, therefore. How do I give meaning to things? Of course, this happens. He is one of the biggest influences of my life and I’ve taken that and said, “Well, what’s the energetics behind that or influencing what I look at?” You have a date and you’re experiencing something, and you really say, “I am so upset with this employee for whatever it is, blah, blah, blah.” Every time you’re doing that, you’re actually amplifying those realities and up to, 10,000 realities, you have to start living in those realities where he hurt you. Of the other one, number one and thinking of – you’re connected to, of course, quantum space. You’re both coherent. You’re there and you’re both holding yourself into that version of that person. Now, if you realize, “Wow, it’s me observing this person. What’s my posture like when I’m thinking about them? What’s my breath pattern like? What else am I enjoying? I’m not enjoying anything.” Well, realize, “There’s a ‘me’ observing this. Great. Now, you say, “What energy am I bringing and what energy must I bring?” You could say, “What is my nature?” That’s the first thing. “What is my nature?” is the most sacred thing. In this next tier of conscious we’re moving into, pure awareness of one’s nature, nature of the system, pure awareness of the game one plays or is being played by is an end unto itself. I learned that from Oneness, from Sri Bhagavan teachings, that pure awareness is an end unto itself, and that’s very important because when a system is able to observe itself, suddenly, it’s when it can be available. Awareness is the key, and I’ve found that in the healing process. Awareness is the key that we take a look at. I’ll tell you something else, the purpose of every thought in every story about what happens in life is to make sure your life does not change. If you have a story about why things are the way they are, if you have a story that this person did this or that, if you’re recalling history or future in a certain way, the person of your conversation with yourself or others is to reinforce your identity, who you believe you are, and to make sure nothing changes. It’s just that simple. Why? Because it’s protecting you from dropping to a low order. At least I have a story, I have more energy than not having a story, but that story stops you because stories bind energy. It’s open only when you get the next level of energy by either busting up the bullshit of the story or just going there and the story’s gone. I just did an event with Topaz and Topaz was the Emmy award-winning short documentary maker and just won another award for the Skoll Foundation, and he just won great awards as the best storyteller.

He did a documentary, and you can go to and you’ll find a lot more stuff on this and watch his documentary. He just did a documentary filmed on one of our programs called The Gate. He had a retreat recently. I was just at that retreat. I also had a day working with people on retreat. He had people talk about, “What is the story of your life?” Because the story of your life is what sets the force of attraction. People had all these stories. “I was adopted.” “This happened.” “It’s the story I’ve been living.” Then, I spent a day with them and people said, “You know what? I have no story. The story was totally gone.” Because you’ve raised the energy, you have a more resourceful interpretation. The key here is to, one, identify that there’s a “me” observing and interpreting my reality, past, future, present. A “me” interacting with the field around me that creates and manifests, and if I change which version of me I have with much energy consistent with by nature, it’s a different experience of reality and different impact. If there is no observer constantly participating, it is impossible to have a successful impact on the field on others or in your life.

S: That reminds me of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle that just by observing something, you change it. If you want to get the exact position, the location of something like a subatomic particle, just the fact that you’re observing it changes it and you can’t observe it, measure it without affecting me.

D: That is because of quantum particles and now we’re talking about it macroscopically. As you get to the higher levels of consciousness, your observer observes at macro-level, and whatever observed is impacting, suddenly, you get luckier. Things just manifest. Opportunities just happen. Someone, for example, could attack you on a particular day or rape you, or beat you with a gun, or whatever happens. If you had more energy in your field at that time, you in the field, then that person might have met you and not done the same thing, may have threatened you or that person may have had a conversation with you, you felt fear and then led you to an accident. Right now in the world, we need to have pain and trauma and force and violence in order to create massive change in anyone who has achieved true greatness, true extraordinary oh-my-god greatness. That person’s backstory, I will tell you, was one of violence, and abuse, and all different types of things because that put enough energy in the system to knock apart their sense of self, to knock apart their dignity, to knock apart their ability to fit it into the culture so they could defy the culture. It put lots of energy but, for most people, to harness that energy, to get to the other side of it, to do this, most people don’t make it through and they wind up on drugs, really ill, in jail or something else. I developed systems years ago, over decades, and I’ve worked with probably a quarter-million people, and millions of people have received the applications I’ve done over the years with different practitioners doing different aspects of it. Because I was able to help shorten this through my technologies, a person’s moving from womb to gift. That’s extraordinary, but in order to move to humanity’s gift, not just individuals, I realized I need another source of energy, and that’s the unbound energy like the sun’s unbound energy. I’ve found a way of tapping into that, understanding and measuring its impact on us and working with it. For example, Stephan, one of the concepts there we have is the internal-external, and that’s a sexy one. That’s one that’s been impactful to you, correct?

S: Yes, very much so.

D: We are have a questionnaire or a survey where we’ve had about three years of working with mathematical algorithms, using algorithms on how the mind functions to assess this, and this has been toward athletic performance, the business world. I know people who have actually been cancer-ing and the only thing they did was switch this, like I talked about the woman before with the cardiac situation, and switched to the proper orientation, and the cardiac thing is different. Women who had cancer, you switch that, next day, no cancer. A few dates, cancer again she wasn’t able to sustain it, and that’s what led me to the fact that we have to teach systems to people on how to sustain these. This is it, these two typologies. If you can know something that can instantly add 40%-50% more energy to your body, change your emotional state, change how you experience things, increase your opportunity, go from disliking somebody to liking them, from hating them to enjoying them, going from wanting to get a divorce or a change of circumstance, from quitting to your job or staying with it, between manifesting or not, would you want to know that? This determines how you buy, what you do, what your relationship, to success in everything. I have several typologies, the easiest is only two so it’s kind of sexy here. One is called internal-external, and this is a unique aspect. It deals with the direction of your energy flows in your consciousness, in your body, in your field or in your force of attraction. I’m what’s called an internal. What does that mean? It means the spin of my atoms originated, I believe, all the way in the past. When  the Big Bang, the god and goddesses have a party and it’s a big bang, from that, everything is created. As more planets, as more clouds, and stars and planets form, energy is used up. That’s one of the ways they determine the age of the universe, by the radial signals of energy being dissipated. What happens is the further way I go back in the past, the more potential energy there is to use. The more I go to future, the less energy I have available. For me, my inspiration flows go from the past to the future and I am observing; my observer is looking out at the world. Anytime that I, for me, for my internal, I’ll tend to be more traditional. Now, I can make decisions very quickly but I always have to go back to the past, which is never painful. I’ve had things happen to me. I’ve had abuse happening to me. I’ve had torture. I’ve had attempted murder. There’s not one thing in my past that’s painful because as long as I focus on the past, I have more energy, different motions, different manifestation, different posture, different reality. I’m a traditionalist so I, for years, perhaps 20 years ago, may have taken a break from the chiropractic and healing profession because I developed all the systems but I had to. I had to honor traditions and take it to the next level, take what I already learned, the gifts I have, and build upon it. That’s what Bill Gates did with his Microsoft. Took it, slightly failed though, and saw the best and then kept building upon it in his systems. For me, something that’s far in the future is painful. “So, Donny, what’s your long-term goal?” I’d freeze, I’m going to tell them, “Today, next week or next month, that’s it because if I experience anything I don’t like, it’s far away from me. I don’t have enough energy.” If I want to get messed up or remember painful things, I observe it from outside-in. I reverse the direction I’m observing my life at the beginning of my life. For this, I was a congestive heart failure about six years ago and I realized, “How is this possible?” I was experiencing my body sense, my entire sense, my physiology and my heart, outside, looking back upon myself. I brought it back in and, nine months later, the damage to the septum and my left ventricles, it perfectly never showed any evidence of this. Every time I get messed up, I’m observing outward because if my body needs the energy, I reverse the way my information flows in my entire body and being, I lose the information. I now cannot use the higher part of my brain and I become part of the culture. Everything is effort. I’m trying. I want to make a difference. I don’t know. I’m working on it. It’s effort, and what happens is I go in a loop. I get improvement; it drops back. I make money; it falls apart. The net result is nothing really changes. That’s not okay. I’m alive but that’s not okay.

S: You’re going against your nature.

D: That’s right, and all of our illness and all of things that cause pain and the like is because we have energy deficiency. Now, let me talk to you to the other part, and it’s what you are and most seeker people or seekers are. I seek to the soul-seeker. There are seekers who are internal, also. The external, you live from the future, where the big crunch happens and the whole universe is collapsed again. You’re atoms. Remember, every electron has an upward or downward spin. That’s what creates electrical charge. That’s creates the energy of life, that duality, whether it be masculine, feminine. It’s the charge, the zing. One is one and the other. However, people who are predominantly with family, you must live in your nature. The same thing with this. That spin, they call up or down, I spoke to some physicists and physical chemists, and they said, “Well, it could be forward-backwards. It could be past-future. It’s just a di-pole.” I say, it’s the way information is carrying light in an energy and with a bolt, each of us are lined up with one different–if you take Vitamin C and ascorbic acid, they’re two different substances. While they may seem the same, one reflects light to right and the other to the left. All food is biologically active, it’s polarized, only a certain direction, same chemical. If it’s facing the opposite direction, the body cannot get the energy from it. That’s the way life works.

Externals are futuristic. They live in the future. Life told them they don’t fit in. They will never fit in. They will never fit into their family, the culture and the environment. They somehow had wounding. They believe and their life path has been, “Well, if I could fix what happened in the past or changed them, my future will be better,” and they have an obsession about healing the past, “If I can let go of this, it’ll be better.” Basically, their life has been hurt by something that happened in the past. “Of course.” And they say, “Well, this is coming up for me. It’s painful. If you’re inside, things come up.” For you, anything in the past or anything in your body will break down. You say, “In my heart, I know it’s bullshit. It’s not true.” If you try to heal, you will never forgive your past. You’ll never heal your past. You’ll never let go of it. How much energy is available not fighting that? You’re prepared that the fact that the present world and the future world is not where you live; you live out of your body and stop trying to come back into your body. I’m sorry, you must come back into your body but your source is far out. You live in the clouds. You live in the dreams. You live in the hopes. You create the future reality, and the internals have to create the bridge. This is the difference. This woman who had the cardiac situation, she realized, her whole life, she was trying to fit in and be grounded and do her inner work. As soon as she experienced that she was part of the clouds, she was part of everything–her hands went up, her body arched up, suddenly, she realized all the symptoms went away. I’ve had that with people who have been in massive pain, massive depression, who have been ready to make a decision to let go of their spouse and just because they didn’t have enough energy to make it work differently. We are all both internal-external. I’m not talking what your habit is; I’m talking about what is your ideal nature. That’s one of those bases now. Someone like Jobs was external. He didn’t create a phone; he created a revolution of something new. He didn’t go to the next step; he went 10 steps beyond. Finally, when he went out to Pixar and he came back and got more internals working in the company, he made a difference. I think that Apple probably can use another very external leader right now. Cook has been great, and we need more external and external developers who think so far out of the box, he’d keep the momentum going. The thing is the externals will always be ahead of the curve and never make things relevant to help solve everyone else’s problems but their own. Pick your poison, and that, all your gift, it’s as simple. Either internals feel that everyone understood what I understood, knew what I know, do it the way I do it or plan the way I do it, then life will be great. I’m great. Everyone else is deluded. Externals think everyone else is great and I’m not good enough. Between the two, we have reality, but you must live in your nature. As soon as you live in your nature, suddenly, there’s more energy, and that’s what the conversation is about. If you focus on money and you’re an external and you feel money inside, it’s never going to manifest. If you originally met your spouse and you would cruise the universe with him or her and now she’s in your body, the relationship’s going to be over because there’s not enough energy like the wood to manifest the information of your relationship, all your body, all your finances, all your vision. The idea is that’s the first of many steps to actually observe life and to choose a higher level of energy. Unless you choose the energy, you cannot have the impact, and that’s the whole point.

S: One manifestation of this really powerful framework, for me, once I recognized that I was external, is that if I focused on my body or my health or whatever–that’s like an internal sort of approach–but as an external, if I think about future stuff and outside of me, I’m going to impact negatively future stuff with these bad eating habits or by not going to the gym and visualizing future stuff and looks like and feeling empathy or compassion for future stuff and not wanting that bad outcome for future stuff really helped me in making some significant life changes. Another thing that helped for me as an external was, as you’re talking about relationships, if you see it as the relationship, well, that’s internal and, as an external, that’s a great way to destroy the relationship. Instead, I always look at my wife, Orion, as a separate individual and not thinking about our relationship because if it’s ours, then it’s internal and things like my own projects, my website and all these things are just hard work, hard slog—it’s struggle. Whereas it’s effortless, I’m in my gift, I’m in flow when I’m working on other people’s problems, other people’s website and businesses, it’s effortless. I’m just plugged in. It just makes total sense now that I’m an external and that’s how I work. If I want to be successful with my relationship, it’s not my relationship; it’s helping my wife, Orion. If I want to be successful with a project that is within my company, it’s not my project; it’s somebody else’s project I’ve given them ownership. John and my company now is in charge of the revamp of my membership site, and I’m going to help John out.

D: It’s exactly opposite of what people are conditioned for. First of all, the Western philosophies say, “You have to develop yourself.” They’re internal-based. Develop yourself and all of our problems to not have to develop a sense of self so they have to find their fractured part of themselves and find them again and heal that. The Eastern philosophy says, “All of our problems is too much sense of self.” So a solution for you there, also, is that it is your company but where you are in space is this: The impact your company is making in the world. That’s what you focus on. How your company is fulfilling the needs of the future generations. That’s where it is. You must then take that and bring it energy back into your company as long as the information flow goes from the larger to the smaller. As long as the [01:03:56] go from the bigger to the smaller, it’ll happen. Now, your company is still your company but you’re not here; you’re every place. That’s the difference. When you think of you now in your relationship, you do have a relationship with Orion but the concept of relationship for you is internal. If your relationship with her was a cosmic one, then it’ll be there. The idea is to take the concept of relationships and make it in the way that you are all the empowered men who ever have existed and ever will exist, and she is all the divine women who ever are. From that, you are now observing yourself, you’re observing your relationship from another dimension. Then, suddenly, it’s energized; the business is energized. For me, as a creative artist creating extraordinary things–I’m an artist. People say I’m a wizard. I’m an embodied angel, an oracle, whatever term it is, I’m internal but I make my circle so big it includes entire planets in many dimensions. My job as an internal is to make my circles so big, and the externals to bring me back to earth. Whatever your nature is, you have to expand in the opposite direction but your source must be from where your energy is.

S: It’s such a profound framework. I wish we had time to go into another framework that was just so life-changing for me that I learned from you, which was the triad of change and how there’s the prime, there’s keystone and the drain. That’s just so incredible. My prime is structure, my keystone is perception and my drain is behavior. Whereas if my prime was behavior, I just hop in a car and I wouldn’t know where I want to go, like, where we’d go to dinner, but I would think on the fly and I’d be like, “Okay, it happens but I’m not like that at all.”

D: My internal nature is hearing your expansive view of all of this right now, and I’m chuckling right now because the external takes steps from where we are. The internal takes one or two steps there, but I could think very rapidly. What we just described is that, not only does internal-external determines the direction which information flows in and, in your nature, it effortlessly flows. Otherwise, you’ll lose a lot of energy, and so much of your typology, your personality, your likes, what you don’t like, etc and how you heal, to try to change says that there are three ways we organize our reality and our worlds, from our body, to our field, to our business, our love, our relationships, in every area. There’s three: one is perception, which is a feeling, a sense, a knowing. Another one is behavior, which is putting things in motion, you or other people. It’s always in motion. The third one is structure, which is the form, a solid snapshot of the world. Behavior has the most energy but not that much information; it just does, like, “What were you thinking about?” “I was just doing.” Perception has all information and not that much energy so it’s a long pause, lots of feeling but no action yet or nothing. Structure is some place in between that. The thing is we all use all three. For one of us, one’s the way we prime the motor or get our system started in remembering, in learning, in creating, in manifesting, energizing our field. That only lasts for a short time; it gets there and ignites it. The second way is the way we organize it and how we make change on a regular basis, and how we adapt to our stress response. The third one, you don’t go directly; it’s toxic if you go directly there because you lose so much energy; you’re a deer in the headlight. However, if you use the first two, the first and third effortlessly magically happens. For me, I’m a behavior dude first. I get into the car, my wife says, “Where are we going?” and I say, “I don’t know.” “So then why are you driving?” I say, “Because I won’t know where I’m going until I start driving.” My brain has to be in motion. You want to talk? I have to walk around the house with a phone. They may punish these children in school but these children, people need to walk, or move, or do something, or fidget before anything happens. Therefore, they get excited it by motion first. Now, a perception person, that person has to first feel or cinch, and a behavior person may think, “You don’t care about me. You don’t love because I asked you question. Answer me.” That’s because they’re taking so much more information, where we have to observe you. They must stay different. The structure person, they want to sit down, they want to know where’s the menu, where are they sitting, what time is it. They must know that before they can go further. It’s a whole depth of understanding and it’s another quest I’ve been working on for about three years here with extraordinary algos of the team, and we’ll be coming up with that soon. That came about watching people. I take care of people and some people first go lie in their table, “I don’t see much of a response,” and I go, “Wow, what’s happening.” I feel unsuccessful. I felt that years ago. “Oh my god, I just saw a god. I saw all the love in the universe,” I go, “Huh?” They didn’t move because movement is what progress is for me. Another person I take care of, and they sit up, and they hold their arms out at a distance and they’re sitting there for a few moments. They end up changing their structure, change their posture to do it. We have different ways of seeing the world. Obama wins a Nobel peace prize. Perception people say, “That’s so great.” Why? Because he changed the conversation how people feel about America. Behavior people say, “WTF did he do?” Structure people will say, “So, we won a piece of legislation there?” It’s all the same and when you’re having a fight or argument with your spouse or your family member, it’s because your energy drops low. When it’s high, it doesn’t matter what they are or what you are. What happens when it drops low, and if you get to know the way this person organizes their world, their reality, success, it basically is the way you go about organizing how much energy is available for you to make impact, yourself and the world. These are all ways of doing it. I go on and on with all types of aspects, and these are things that are available. When you go to, that site that was recently launched, we’re adding lots of material pretty regularly in it, and there’ll be more information on this and we’ll be offering all different education with educational experiences, with people in these and many typologies but all of them come back to EpiEnergetics. EpiEnergetics is the conscious and ecological use of energy and information to produce extraordinary. If you don’t want extraordinary, I’m not your man. If you want extraordinary, there aren’t too many people who do it who know the magic behind everything, and we’re articulating it. We’re finding all different ways to doing and giving lifetime strategies. The bottom line behind all this is, whether it be in religious or spiritual to traditions or something else, it is only the extraordinary experiences that lead to a potential extraordinary life. Ordinary experience leads to an ordinary life. We want you to be able to have an extraordinary experience and extraordinary strategies that you’ve learned from it. Here, your experiencing leads to your knowing and understanding. Your understanding will not lead you to greatness. I was just with Ken Wilber, the greatest philosopher of all time, one of my heroes, my systems have some his of work embedded into the first systems to do with the next tier of consciousness. He said after studying the contemplative practices for 50 years, going through them, he’s realized that those things are really helpful and only, only an experience beyond yourself of an extraordinary nature is really what leads to you awakening. If you have the experience, then you could understand but you can never use the mind, no matter how evolved it is, to go beyond to create extraordinary. It could optimize your state. Ultimately, something else has to happen. I’d like your extraordinary experience to be one that’s instantly of the energy rather than an extraordinarily painful experience that takes a long time to harvest. Let’s have extraordinary experiences, consciously choose it to destabilize our too-stable life and bring us to a new level.

S: Beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Donny, and, listeners, I so encourage you to check out Donny’s amazing work to find a practitioner that’s learned from Donny in your local area, to go to one of his events like The Gate and, ultimately, the Ultimatum Experience which is incredible. You do need to get some practitioner care and get some other events under your belt first before you can go to a high-level six-day event like Ultimatum, but it’s life-changing and I just wish that for you. Thank you, again, Donny. Thank you, listeners. We’ll catch you on the next episode of The Optimized Geek.